Nationalism: A discussion

This is a discussion I had with a good friend of mine about nationalism. Some interesting points were raised, and discussed.

Vinod:
As you wished me -- Have a Proud Independence Day! Although, I derive little or no pride in such organized nationalism.

Me:
It's not the organized nationalism that I wanted you to appreciate, but nationalism itself. It is sad that most people feel this spirit only momentarily, that too on incorrectly called national 'holidays'. It should be national 'festivals'. Went to school today. I like it a lot to see all those children singing the national anthem, even though they may not feel the depth of it, or may deliberately avoid it. But in that moment of chorus (forced it may be) I derive my pleasure.

Vinod:
You will perhaps find it sadder that one of your good friends does not appreciate nationalism in any form. In fact, I have trouble understanding the concept of nationalism itself, at least in the Indian context. What exactly is a nation? What exactly is the Indian nation? And even if you can satisfactorily define those two, why should I swear my allegiance to any nation? There are the questions that elude and trouble me. What exactly is deep about the national anthem? Why exactly do you feel pleasure when you hear people sing it? One possible reason is that you see people united for a common cause in all this. I have seen that only in films and yes, it does give me the Goosebumps. However, when it comes to nationalism -- what exactly is it that we are or should be united for? And if you are talking about national identity, I firmly believe that India has none.

Me:
I'll start by answering the questions first. A nation is not the political boundaries. It is the culture you relate yourself to. The Indian nation is the geographical region that is inhabited by people who share a common thread of religion, language or culture. The diversity is of course there but still there is something that you can find common in all the people. And now as to why you should pledge allegiance to the nation is because you're in her debt. The person you are, the social standing you have, the facilities you avail of, the moral code you follow, and the directions your thoughts take, all come finally from the country. I'll tell you how. The culture that brought you up, decided what you think and how you think, agreeably you'll say that you are an independent thinker and say that all that you think and do is inspired from a lot of factors that are non-Indian. But still it's your decision of right and wrong, the choice of what to do and what not to do finally comes from the code of conduct you have derived form the culture.

Vinod:
So you say that a nation is the culture that you can relate to. True. That is how most nations have been defined. However, you must also accept that while the concept of a nation evolved naturally in Europe, it was almost forced upon the Indian subcontinent. Thus, in Europe you find nations with fairly uniform cultures and languages and in India you find a forcibly put together assortment of peoples who find it really hard to relate to each other. If you need a first hand experience of this talk sometime to Shashank about Chennai. The trouble that man has in adapting to the Tamil culture is phenomenal. Still, you say that there is a common thread running through the Indian people. Indeed, entire volumes have been written to prove this. Take for example Nehru's, Discovery of India or Amartya Sen's, The Argumentative Indian. The fact that such long texts are needed to 'define' India proves, in the least, that it is difficult to define the Indian nation. Anyhow, whether India is a nation or not is rather irrelevant to my anti-nationalistic feelings.You say that I should pledge allegiance to my nation since I'm in her debt. I fail to understand how this is so. A. The nation has not purposefully provided me for my various needs. The nation is not a conscious being B. I never asked for it. I never asked for myself to be born. In essence this whole 'debt' has been forced on me. I was never consulted in whether I wanted to accept it or not. It is as if you catch a beggar from roadside. Give him a million bucks without his asking for them. Force him into becoming a successful millionaire and then say that you are in my debt. The poor fellow never asked you to do it! Thus, I do not see it as a debt.Even if you do see it as a debt, how do you resolve the fact that the education that you are so proud of comes largely from outside the country. The culture that you so proudly inherit is a product of thousands of years of history none of which even mentions "India' since India wasn't invented then. Why then do you feel indebted to this particular political and cultural unit? And since you emphasized so much on culture, the entire subcontinent, including China, Afghanistan, and the south East Asian countries can be seen as one cultural unit. Why should I not swear my allegiance to all of them then?

Me:
Fine, it was not your choice, being born, but then nobody has that choice. But once born, you were asking for debts, they were not pushed to you forcefully. You wanted food, you wanted shelter, security. Your parents wanted education for you, a ‘settled’ future. And how was all that taken care of? Because of the country you were born in. Okay it was your hard work that brought the money, but the fact that you are able to earn money in return for work was ensured by the country. This hard work would have been no good, had you been born in Somalia. And this may be broadened to include your ability to buy. You are able to get products worth your money, because the country ensures so.
Agreeably, the Indian nation was formed in the most dynamic circumstances and a lot of different cultures were forced together. But once together, they learnt to coexist. No doubt everyone asserts the unique existence of his culture but they still are voluntarily Indian.
Getting to the factor of political boundaries, that is more of an unwritten rule that the area I’m able to control is mine and I can take as much economic advantage of that area as I fancy. The fact that our country spans such a large area is of germane interest to us, because that will ensure we get food and other things.
And I think I should define nationalism here. It obviously does not entail joining the army and hating Pakistan. It involves a feeling of pride in the culture you belong to, in the heritage you’re an heir to and faith in a fund you’re investing in.

Vinod:
Even assuming that all the things you said in paragraph 1 are reasonable (although I still have trouble subscribing to the concept of debt) why only nationalism? Why not a monarchy? Why not just familial bonding? Why should one subscribe to the concept of nation?Then, coming back to the question of debt. Since nobody has any choice in the matter of birth and birth is, in a manner of speaking, 'forced' on the individual by his parents. Once the parents bring an individual to life it is their *duty* to fulfill his needs. They are not obliging the child by being good parents. If they did not want to be good parents they had no right to bring the child to life. To extend the concept further, if a society or 'nation' is bringing a new life to earth, it is its *duty* to see to the needs of that individual. The nation is only fulfilling it's *duty* I don't see any debt involved. Second, once born the child has not idea that he is asking for debt (according to you). The very concept does not exist in the child's mind. How then does the question of debt arise? When you feed a pet in your house, will you say that it’s under your debt? If you take a pet in, it is your duty to feed it. Otherwise don't take it in. If I were ever to define a nation, I'd define it as a group of mutually cooperative individuals who are cooperating because they believe that together they can grow more than if they were fending for themselves.You assertion, that all people of India are voluntarily Indian, is questionable. I don't think majority of the populace had any say in the matter. Colonial decisions were largely taken in bureaucratic offices.Surprisingly, you give a very agreeable definition of nationalism yet bottle it in a package that is totally loathsome. What is this debt crap? Yes, I am proud of my culture and the more I travel across the country (the recent Hyderabad trip for instance) the more I fall into love with it. I get Goosebumps when I realize how people so diverse can live in such harmony. No region is truer to the nature of humanity than the Indian subcontinent with its diversely textured culture.Yet, why I should restrict what I claim to be mine within the name 'Indian' is beyond me. I find the Chinese or the African to be as fascinating as I find my own people. My own people are special only because I understand them way better. I wish to claim the entire universe as mine.

Me:
Well since we started of this discussion with the idea that you did not subscribe to the idea of nationalism, I switched into this debt mode. I use this explanation for the worst cases. But now I know you are not a 'worst case', so I’ll talk of more tangible aspects.You very correctly defined the idea of a nation as a cooperative, and everyone works for that cooperative because everyone identifies the fact that each one of them will grow, if they work together. It is the feeling of loyalty for this cooperative, the urge to do things for its well being is what I define as nationalism.Most parents are responsible and they fulfill their duties. But many do not. It is not right to bring life, if you are not able to care for it, but then are all people righteous?Fine the nation is fulfilling its duty, but are you? I cannot just leave my parents one fine day, and say that you performed your duty well. I too am supposed to perform *my part of the duty*. In the case of our family we perform our duty by reciprocating the love, by ensuring their material and moral comfort. In the case of the nation, I respect it for what it did for me, I work for its well being, and this is nationalism.Yes, I understand the feeling, one gets when one encounters different cultures, and their seamless intermingling. It comes to us because it is basically an opportunity to *understand*. It is something we're trying to do, voluntarily or involuntarily, to learn, to understand.Colonial decisions were taken in bureaucratic offices, and most people did not have a direct say that, but someone must decide for the masses that apparently are not all that intelligent to decide for them. Someone has to initiate the formation of a cooperative.